Friday, August 07, 2009

I know it's post-trade PR, but I don't disagree

Cleveland Indians owner Paul Dolan:
"After we traded Cliff, we had made a commitment toward a new direction for the franchise," he said. "At that point, you don't go halfway. We needed to make moves that put us in the best position to compete as soon as possible. The sense was in our organization that Vic [Martinez] was at his highest value and what we got back in return put us in a better position than we would have been had we kept them."
As much as I hated the Martinez trade, I have to agree here. The Tribe already tried the contend+rebuild combo (Matt Lawton!!) and it sucked. I'm all for tearing down and starting over. If you're gonna do it, go all the way.

Now, there's the flip-side to consider. When it's time for the Tribe to contend, you gotta go balls to the wall there as well. If the 2012 Tribe is looking good and needs and extra bat, you trade whatever prospect you can to go get that bat (and it can't be Kenny Lofton again).

I'm all for going 100% into rebuilding mode. Just make sure you go 100% into "Win the Fucking World Series" mode when it's time.


davemanddd said...

you are absolutely right. way-back-when, after the colon trade, shap-lie-ro continually said that whenever the indians were ready to contend again, which he predicted would be in just a few years, that they (the dolans) would spend the money to bring in some better free agents at the proper time to help put them over the top. it turns out he was quite correct in that the indians were indeed back to being contenders again in just a few years. the problem was that they had a real opportunity to put themselves over the top then, but they failed to spend the money in the proper ways to add any further significant pieces to the puzzle in both 2005 & 2006 like they said they would. jason johnson??? you have got to be kidding me!!! paul byrd??? puh-lease!!! david de-douche-bag??? omg!!! then in 2007, not adding any significant players before the trade deadline, other than the 40-year old lofton, really contributed to their 3-1 alcs lead collapse as they had nobody else to provide any sort of spark that could indeed put them over the top. then, standing pat after that 2007 season is what pretty much contributed to the early season downfall in 2008 and the subsequent trades of sabathia and casey "blank". which brings them to the current sad state of affairs. trading all their proven major league players like lee and martinez for decent prospects the way he did is surely the biggest strength of shap-lie-ro, but his biggest weakness is pulling the trigger on trades to get proven major leaguers in return for his own prospects, as well as signing the better free agents to help get the team over the top to winning a title. it remains to be seen if he can actually do that as he has yet to demonstrate that he can and i have no faith that he will do it when the time comes again. we can only hope.

Geoffrey said...

When dishing out the blame, I feel the majority of it should fall on the shoulders of Wedge, and not Shapiro in particular.

Ya there were a number of injuries which isn't exactly Wedge's fault. But during his tenure here the Indians have CONSISTENTLY started out slow in the beginning of the season, and they dug themselves too big of a hole to climb out of. People tend to forget that the Indians actually finished with a .500 record last year (81-81), and a lot of those wins were after the C.C. trade. This year is the same: We are actually playing good baseball as of the last couple of weeks, but the start of the season was so bad that we can't possibly make a run. It is particularly frustrating since a .500 record at this point would put us 4 games out of 1st place of the division.

I don't think that it is necessarily a lack of talent on the team, its the fact that players with major league talent don't play up to their ability. Carmona was a Cy young candidate two years ago, and he got sent to the MINORS this year. Same with Raffy Perez. These are young guys that inexplicably just completely fell off the map. It's not just them having bad years - they are going in the opposite direction. I think the fact that some players have gone to other teams and actually fulfilled their potential (ex. B. Phillips, F. Gutierrez) points to the fact that we don't have good coaches.

Shapiro has def made some mistakes (horrible drafts, signing platoon outfielders), but I don't think the Indians problem is lack of talent. Evidence is this roster is very similar to the one that won 97 games in 2007. And I believe that he did make some moves this year cuz he thought we were close. He traded 3 prospects for Derosa, and he signed an expensive closer in Wood. I don't know what else you could expect from him considering how free agency works in baseball (ie. small market team is never going to sign an elite free agent like C.C., Burnett, Texiera, etc)

I know I also might be in the minority on this, but I am inclined to give Dolan a pass this year about money/payroll. I was surprised that the indians actually had a payroll over 80 million this year, so its not like we are the Pirates/Marlins. Also, you have to consider that we are in an economic RECESSION, and we don't like to see it, but owners are affected by it too. And not to be mean, its not like tribe fans were filling up the stadium when indians were good. I don't think its fair to blame Dolan for being cheap (at least not this year) when there is a worldwide recession...

Ben said...

At the end of the day, I guess I'm OK with all the trades. The optics looked bad at first (especially the Lee deal) but it is what it is.

If you're gonna rebuild, do it right- go all the way.

Shapiro has a decent track record with these types of deals, but he has a terrible track record at adding Major League ready talent.

They keep signing/trading for the DeRosas, Dellucci's, Byrds or the world. The Tribe needed a righthanded power bat from 2006-2008 and they never addressed it.

I get why you wanna hold onto your prospects (esp. considering the market size, economy, etc) but you gotta give up something to get something.

As for Wedge...

On one hand, when no one in the bullpen can throw a strike or get anyone out, there's only so many moves a manager can make.

Though with the Tribe's current resurgence, Wedge's problems come back into focus. Mainly, the fact that his teams never win when they're expected to.

When the pressure is off and they're making a late season charge (sneaking up on teams)- they look great. But whether it's folding during the last week of a season, starting off to horrendous starts or blowing a 3-1 lead in the ACLS, when there's honest to god expectations, they fold.

Not expected to beat the Yankees? They win. Post deadline win streaks? Yup.

Honestly, no Indians fan who has been paying attention over the last 6 years can be surprised at their recent stretch of good play.

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