Tuesday, November 20, 2007

Randy Moss, MVP?

I've had this discussion with my buddies throughout the season and it comes up with Peter King today:
From Joe C. of Diamond Bar, Calif.: "Longtime reader and love your columns, especially your coffeenerdness. Maybe I am the only one who strongly believes this, but Randy Moss is by far the MVP over Tom Brady or anybody else in the NFL. Yes, Brady is having a superhuman-like season but it is due in large part to having Moss on the team as well as having the best offensive line in the NFL. Not to say Brady is a little overrated, but put any competent NFL QB in his position, add Moss, and I'm almost certain they will have the same numbers as Mr. Brady. Your thoughts?

I disagree. The fact Brady is making it look easy does not mean it, in fact, is easy. The fact is, no quarterback has ever completed 74 percent of his passes for a season, which Brady is doing, and no quarterback ever has had 38 touchdown passes after 10 games. Brett Favre's career-high for TD passes in a season is 39. Brady has 38, in 205 fewer attempts than Favre when he threw 39. I agree Moss is a huge factor, and I also think he should get some MVP votes. But answer this: The loss of which player would damage the Patriots more in the playoffs -- Brady or Moss?"

I don't pretend to think that Moss will get the MVP. He won't. Brady will (and he'll deserve it). But Moss isn't just a huge factor, he's the factor.

I've always found it hard to believe that people don't give Moss more credit. Randy Moss has made average quarterbacks look like MVPs. Randall Cunningham came out of nowhere to throw for 34 TDs in 1998. Jeff George looked done and then tossed 23 TDs in 1999 (and then proceeded to look done). Dante Culpepper threw 33 TDs as a first year starter in 2000 and tossed 39 in 2004.

How have those guys looked without Moss? (And don't give me anything about Culpepper being hurt; he was awful before he got hurt- 6 TDs, 12 INTs) .

Look, don't get me wrong, Tom Brady is ridiculous. He's great

But this is kind of a Barry Bonds situation.

Bonds was going to make the Hall of Fame before he did steroids. He was going to be a 500-500 guy. He was going to be first ballot; no doubter. But with steroids, he goes from a great player to the greatest player. Starts slamming 73 home runs. Starts getting intentionally walked with the bases loaded. He went from a Hall of Famer to a demigod.

Moss is Brady's version of steroids. Brady was already great. Already a Hall of Famer. But with Moss he looks like the greatest quarterback ever (I mean, 38 TDs... after 10 games?!?!). He's going to obliterate all the passing records this season. I actually do think that they're going to go undefeated. He doesn't do this without Moss.

Randy Moss has made scrubs look like MVPs. Now he's playing with a Hall of Fame quarterback and that quarterback is destroying every passing record in sight? This isn't a coincidence.

Which is why Moss should be the MVP.


Anonymous said...

Moss w/o Brady = 0 Superbowls

Brady w/o Moss = 3 Superbowls

Brady is the reason for the teams offensive success. Hell he was 1:33 away from his 4th Superbowl at the age of 29 with Reche Caldwell, the benched Caldwell, last year! Yeah, it's Brady! Moss just makes him that much more potent, but Brady would be fine with average WR's as he has PROVEN whereas Moss without an above average QB is below average!

graham said...

I don't know. Brady never looked even close to this good w/o Moss. Both are phenomenal. They both crush the records because of each other. Neither would be able to do it without the other.

But I think you can say this:
Most ranks higher among the all-time great at his position than Brady does at his.

Moss is arguably the best WR ever, and yeah, that includes Jerry Rice. Rice just always shut his mouth, gave his best effort every Sunday, and was on a great team. When Moss shuts up, gives his all, and plays on a great team (ie, the Patriots) he's every bit as good as Rice, if not better.

I'm not a big fan of deciding who is better or the MVP based on rings, especially when they play different positions. It's not as if Brady was the sole reason they won those Super Bowls (though he played a big part).

Ben said...

Brady with a hall of fame coach and top defense = 3 superbowls

Moss with Dennis Green and crappy defenses = 0 superbowls

Like Graham said, this is one of the reasons deciding who's better based on rings is imperfect (this was always my beef with the Brady vs Manning argument. Manning was going against the Pats defense while Brady went againts the Colts).

Plus, its not like I'm saying that Brady sucks or whatever. He's awesome. But I don't think it's a coincidence that Brady went from 'great' to 'otherworldly' once he acquirred Moss.

(though, both of these guys would've/should've been first ballot Hall of Famers before their team up)

Cactus Chris said...

As much as I hate the guy, Jason Whitlock wrote an article pretty much mirroring this topic/argument on fox sports, if anyone feels like checking that out. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7472596?MSNHPHMA

Anonymous said...

Moss and Brady should be co-MVPs. Brady has always been good. This is a perfect of example of teamwork making an individual better than a single handed effort.

Brady in my opinion was never elite until the playoffs. Yet he always had the potential to be elite during the regular season. Moss is what Brady has been missing for years. Similarly, Brady and the Patriots are what Moss has been missing for years.

If Moss wasn't with New England then the MVP race would probably be between Favre and Romo. The Cowboys might have even been the team with the undefeated record.

Anonymous said...

I think Brady is great but before Moss he never threw for more than 28 touchdowns, had a career high 92.6 rating and only threw for over 4000 yards once. Moss on the other hand led the leauge in t.d. receptions 4 times, had 6 seasons of double digit t.d.'s (17 twice one being his 1st year in the nfl) and is like 5th all time in t.d.'s. What player is better than Moss at his position T.O.? please not even close. Brady is great but you still have to place him behind Manning ( this year he closed the gap a little) and lets not talk superbowls cause he played on much better teams and football is geared around the team Randy Moss didn't have the teams Brady had and he made has been quarterbacks look like stars (remember Randall Cunningham). Both are phenomenal I just think Brady benifits more from Moss but please keep them together.

Anonymous said...

Brady's always been good, but he never put up numbers like he has in '07, nor was his team ever nearly this good, even in the championship years. The difference is Randy Moss, and he should be the MVP. But Moss won't get it because he's moody and he doesn't look like a glamour boy. That's all there is to it.

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